A/HRC/28/81 120. The delegate of Pakistan, on behalf of the OIC, stated that only when a crime is defined and identified could it be tackled in a comprehensive manner. If there is sufficient case law, additional international standards would unify such evidence that could be applied in all countries and not only in certain regions, and that these additional standards would bring about significant changes. 121. The delegate of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela stated that there is a need for additional standards as there is an increase of new forms of discrimination which must be combated in a systematic and multi-fashioned level. He noted that there has been an increase of incitement to hatred in recent times. 122. In his comments, Mr. Dimitrakopoulos stated that EU policies had come a long way and pointed out that both policies and data are needed to guide policy makers, adding that it the issue is not only protection on paper, but how it is translated in real practice. He informed the meeting that victims’ support services data are collected and available on the website of the FRA for each Member State. The second wave of surveys, following up on previous surveys should illustrate whether victims are willing to use and enforce their rights. He noted that there is a certain fatigue as victims state that discrimination happens repeatedly. He added that improved police training is necessary and in the EU context, it is important to eliminate impunity and to monitor systematically the implementation of existing standards. 123. The Chairperson-Rapporteur referred to historical experiences of slavery, colonialism, apartheid, and the post-colonial period which occurred in many different regions of the world, highlighting their impact on racial discrimination as it developed in the 20th century and onward. He noted that the post-independence period and ensuing immigration witnessed racism and racial discrimination in developed countries. He stated that a victim was often a victim based solely on appearance, and highlighted instances of racial profiling in different regions and locations, including airports. He added that for this reason, surveys directed at victims did not always capture this dynamic or reveal the mindset and mentality of perpetrators or violations. Therefore, surveys, such as those collected by the FRA, should reflect perpetrators’ viewpoints well. He also stated that survey results could also seemingly highlight the lack of confidence in State structures and institutions. He stated that at times, the value of drafting of new laws could represent a moral barometer, telling society that certain behaviour will not be tolerated. The Chairperson-Rapporteur inquired whether in addressing racial discrimination and xenophobia, the objective was to eliminate racism, or just to reduce it, and inquired how far racism should be tolerated. 124. Mr. Dimitrakopoulos agreed that it would be useful to study the issue and profile of perpetrators, especially since they are often thought to be bigots, racists and extremists when in fact they are often regular people. There were good grounds to look at larger social groups and how they manifest their political convictions. He underlined the importance of victims and their right to seek redress and the necessity of building trust in order that victims report crimes, so that the system can respond effectively. E. Summary of the expert presentation and initial discussion on the topic of “Procedural gaps to the ICERD” 125. At the 13th meeting on 15 October, Mr. Anwar Kemal of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, made a presentation on “Procedural Gaps with regard to the ICERD.” He noted that CERD had been following the discussions of the Ad Hoc Committee with keen interest, recalling that in previous sessions, CERD Committee members Mr. Alexey Avtonomov and Ms. Fatimata Binta Dah had shared valuable insights on the issue of procedural gaps; Mr. Patrick Thornberry interacted with the Ad Hoc 45